DEI, Skills, and AI:
Insights for Value-Driven, High-Performance Culture – Jess Von Bank 

[00:00:00] Nena Dimovska: Today, we’re thrilled to have Jess Von Bank, a true rebel and unconventional leader in HR transformation, digital experience, and workforce technology. With over 20 years of experience, Jess now serves as Global Leader for HR Transformation and Tech Advisory at Mercer. A mother of three, she’s not just reshaping the workplace, but paving the way for a better world for the next generation. 

[00:00:27] Nena Dimovska: Today’s conversation will explore her refreshingly unconventional insights on talent strategy, DEI, and building a digital first culture. Welcome, Jess. 

[00:00:39] Jess Von Bank: Thank you so much for having me. I love that intro. 

[00:00:42] Nena Dimovska: Thank you. You obviously are being a strong DEI ambassador. I remember I read somewhere you once said, DEI is like a DNA. It’s a very profound analogy. How can we ensure that DEI becomes deeply embedded in our culture and our practices rather than just, you know, surface level initiative? 

[00:01:06] Nena Dimovska: And, and where do you see room for improvement for many companies?  

[00:01:11] Jess Von Bank: Yeah, diversity, equity and inclusion is not a new concept. We keep playing with it in the last few years. I feel like we’re, you know, organizations are trying to decide, is it inclusion and diversity? Do we have to address and call out belonging specifically? Is it D, E, I and B? What about equity and fairness? 

[00:01:34] Jess Von Bank: Like we keep sort of playing with the acronym, trying to get it right. And that’s okay. I’m totally okay with, you know, sort of sorting out how do we prioritize. But don’t get caught up in the alphabet game in the acronym game. But I like the good, healthy conversation around: what needs to be called out separately because it needs a strategy. 

[00:01:58] Jess Von Bank: It needs to be activated. It needs to be measured. And if you decide that belonging is part of, you know, needs to be part of that and or needs to come first because you can’t get to the rest if people don’t feel an actual sense of belonging. So it’s interesting. It’s also been interesting that it’s seen a little bit of a backlash in the last few years. Unfortunately, DEI work feels a little bit like our employee value proposition or our culture promises. Anything that supports talent attraction, how we get and keep people in our organization tends to ebb and flow with how much we need people, unfortunately. So when the labor market is tight and competition in the external market for hot talent is high. Then we get really, you know, then we really come out with all of these promises and all of these brand statements and all of this commitment that we have no way of sort of keeping, unfortunately, sometimes. And we’re seeing a little bit of that now. And part of it is also in the United States anyway, based on Supreme Court decisions around affirmative action that kind of leave organizations hanging. They’re not sure what they can do. From a diversity hiring, commitment perspective and that kind of thing. So it’s all good, healthy conversation. But when I say DEI needs to be like the DNA of your organization. Most employers of choice. Most employers of choice understand they have nothing without their people. And we are humans at our core. It should not, it should go without saying that we want to feel a sense of connection. We want to work for employers who have our backs. And having our backs means knowing us, understanding us, understanding us deeply, what we need, want, how we thrive. And then being able to connect the dots with that and what that looks like in everyday culture and behaviors at work and manager disciplines and feelings of safety and all of those things. And so it’s, it’s really sort of a, you know, work is a human experience. It requires trust and safety in order for us to do anything impactful together. That’s DEI work in my mind. Sure, it needs to be called out separately because it does need its own commitments and strategies. It needs to be activated and measured. 

[00:04:33] Jess Von Bank: We need to report to the business, our accountability to the outcomes that we want to achieve. So it does need to be a thing, but it needs to be completely embedded and integrated into the way we behave and the way we operate as a business. 

[00:04:50] Nena Dimovska: That’s a very good point. And I would just so just emphasize here what you said about that it demands intention. You know, inclusivity, especially in the hybrid and remote setting, you know, it just isn’t accidental. It has to be designed. There has to be a strategy in place and it has to be activated and measured. 

[00:05:13] Nena Dimovska: So thank you for emphasizing that. I think it’s utterly critical. Now let’s dive into AI topic capturing everyone’s attention nowadays. 

[00:05:23] Nena Dimovska: How do you see people and machines collaborating effectively to enhance rather than replace human roles? And what are some, let’s say, promising practices? 

[00:05:37] Jess Von Bank: Oh,  

[00:05:38] Nena Dimovska: AI……  

[00:05:39] Jess Von Bank: I just got home, by the way. I’m in Minneapolis where I live, but I was on the road this week. I think this might have been my last business trip of the year. Which is… I hate to like I’m gonna knock on wood so that I don’t jinx myself. I sort of love if this is it and I’m putting a bow on traveling for the year. This was the perfect way to end because I spent the entire week talking about AI. In particular, women. And work and AI. And I dove into that or I was asked to dive into that slant in particular because so far we’re seeing disproportionate impact. Surprise, surprise. When anything disruptive happens around logical advancement, innovation. 

[00:06:25] Jess Von Bank: Any disruption tends to disrupt women and other underrepresented groups more. And I don’t even know why we call women underrepresented groups. We make up 52% of the global workforce. And yet we are way underrepresented where AI is being studied, researched, invested in, developed, deployed. And so here’s another moment, another technological advancement. 

[00:06:53] Jess Von Bank: This will probably be the biggest innovation, the biggest technological advancement impacting people, society, the world in our lifetimes. And we’re being left behind because we’re already underrepresented in fields of STEM and technology where it’s being developed. We’re not in the room where decisions are being made around its strategy, its deployment, organizations aren’t talking enough about it. 

[00:07:18] Jess Von Bank: We’re not articulating a strategy for business and we’re not articulating the impact of AI on people in work. We’re getting there. The education is coming along, so we’re getting there, but we’re not talking about it enough. And we’re not talking about the fact that 80% of jobs, we’ll see some level of disruption from AI and automation. 

[00:07:39] Jess Von Bank: Definitely. 

[00:07:39] Jess Von Bank: 80% of jobs are going to see some kind of impact. 20% of jobs are going to see a lot of impact. And those jobs that are going to be affected first, and the most are primarily held by women. Their call center, customer service, retail, quick service restaurant, hospitality jobs that are prone to automation. 

[00:08:02] Jess Von Bank: They’re right for automation, and they’re primarily held by women today. So I hate to go down this rabbit hole for women. But I like again, we have to understand what it is. It’s the biggest technological advancement, the biggest moment for transformation in business period. Bar none. And we have to understand what the potential opportunity is, but we also have to understand how to bring everybody along on that journey. 

[00:08:30] Jess Von Bank: And so far we’re not doing enough. We’re not doing enough to understand what AI and automation and co pilots and agentic AI. What this can actually do for us for business, and it’s not just about driving efficiency and productivity. It’s super exciting that we can do the work we’re doing today in 70% of the time instead of 100% of the time. 

[00:08:55] Jess Von Bank: Like that’s great. That’s money straight to the bottom line of the business. That’s awesome. But 

[00:09:01] Nena Dimovska: But  

[00:09:01] Jess Von Bank: can we do moving forward that we’re not doing today? What’s the higher order work that people can focus on? From a strategy, from a relational perspective, from an innovation and creativity perspective. Like what Christmas presents under the tree since it’s that time of year, do we get to unwrap that we weren’t able to get to before because we were stuck in mundane, repetitive, you know, processing type of work. So I’d love to see us asking bigger questions, better questions around what can we do now that this huge moment in technology exists, not just doing the same stuff faster. Please don’t just like, it’s, it’s not just about doing the same stuff faster. Is it exciting that we can write a job description in five seconds instead of 15 minutes? Sure, but I don’t think we’ve been handed the biggest technology gift we can imagine to write a crappy job description faster. Like, I think we need to be thinking bigger. So then let’s do the let’s bring this back around to what I just said. We’re leaving a lot of people behind. We’re going to displace a lot of jobs. We’re going to disproportionately impact a lot of people. We’re going to fail to reskill and redeploy those people for the types of work they can and should be doing. And so we have to, like, we have to kind of, like, get ahead of this runaway train a little bit to say, wait a minute, who falls out of the workforce because of this? And that’s okay. Like the pencil was a huge technological advancement at one time. Fire was a huge technological advancement at one time. Like it’s okay that we innovate. It’s okay that we reinvent ourselves and move forward. I like using electricity. Instead of building a fire. Like this is an okay thing. And I don’t want to, you know, discourage or take any energy away from that. I’d rather we think like two or three steps ahead to say: all right, so what jobs go away? What tasks are reinvented? What higher order work can people do now that we couldn’t do before? And who’s falling out of the workforce that I can reskill, bring along on this journey, redeploy and reactivate for that type of work moving forward. That’s how we balance out the disproportionate impact that we’re already doing that we’re already having on people.  

[00:11:32] Nena Dimovska: I mean other than, as you said, companies talking and, you know, being aware about this technology gift, as you, as you say, you briefly mentioned some of the strategies that company can do. And maybe you can just share just a few more recommendations to be the next steps, you know, to bring everybody along. As you said, it’s disproportionately impacts various groups in our workforce. 

[00:11:59] Nena Dimovska: So other than re skilling and redeploying people, how, how can managers really get ahead of it? Maybe the answer can be just a teaser for a next conversation we can have only on this topic because it’s very big and I think very critical at this time. 

[00:12:19] Jess Von Bank: So you asked about skills earlier, and that’s a really interesting overlap with the AI conversation, because if we were just using this as a moment to drive efficiency, to get more operationally lean, automate. You know, this is like office automation times 1000, right? So we’re going to automate a bunch of processes that feel super clunky today. 

[00:12:42] Jess Von Bank: We’ll be able to sort of lean out a bunch of places in the business, which is awesome. That’s a huge productivity gain that we can’t ignore. But, you know, take this alongside the skills conversation. This is a real opportunity to redesign work. You asked about humans and machines working together in tandem. This is the moment where we can ask, what are all of the ways work can get done and how do I design that? And then that’s not just a workforce conversation. What types of jobs and roles need to exist? And what do the people look like, who do those? What’s their employment, education, experience? Like that’s the way we have been operating. But when we think about all the ways work can get done, it’s okay. People will do some of it. And instead of job requirements for job profiles and people with their education, experience, required qualifications, all of that. What are the skills and how would those translate and map into, you know, this type of work. But we also get to ask, and how is, how is all of that supported with automation and with agentic models of intelligent workflows that can support the humans, doing, you know, managing these processes at a high level? Do we rethink the way we onboard employees into the organization? Is this an agent driven, human supervised, human designed process? Sure. Absolutely. How do we support employees from an HR service center or customers from a customer service center? 

[00:14:27] Jess Von Bank: Is that a lot of intelligent automation workflow? Yes, absolutely. And how do humans design and support that? And how do they sort of lay into that model? So this is a huge work design conversation. I think every organization should be having which changes the human skills and technology conversations as well. But it doesn’t displace anything we’ve talked about in terms of culture and DEI and how you support an employee experience. In fact, all of that becomes even more important. 

[00:15:02] Nena Dimovska: True. And while we’re on the topic of work design, reskilling, redeploying people, what are some of the areas where you think that human touch will remain to be very critical and very important? 

[00:15:17] Jess Von Bank: So we’ve been, you know, we’ve been talking about digital for a long, long time in, in our team here at Mercer. And I feel like the digital conversation just becomes more relevant as we talk about AI and agents and automation, human machine teaming, because digital is a mindset. It’s a way of thinking. 

[00:15:37] Jess Von Bank: It’s a way of thinking about work and how it gets done. It also incorporates human experience design. And so when you think digital, you think about how you use data to understand people and how they work in what channels or what flows of work. And then you incorporate design thinking against those personas. 

[00:16:01] Jess Von Bank: And you think about journeys, not processes, but journeys and interactions, not just processes and transactions, which is very kind of finite and siloed. And so this is really helpful thinking this digital you know, sort of mindset when you think about data fitness and design thinking and personas, not users. Journeys, not transactions. 

[00:16:27] Jess Von Bank: This is exactly that east-west, you know, sort of thinking that eliminates north-south silos. That will be super, super relevant as we move forward and think about designing work supported by intelligence and agents enabled by AI and insights. This sort of like digital mindset and learning to become a digital enterprise. Is exactly where people can, can kind of, you know, sort of settle in and design everything from there. When you look at AI and the opportunity of intelligence and automation, this is a great foundation. Thinking digital, learning to be digital is a foundation that will not fail you. This is a great place for you to sit from a mindset perspective and then think, okay, strategy, action, deploy, measure. 

[00:17:23] Jess Von Bank: How do I approach all of this? And I’m happy to help anybody with that. We have some great playbooks to sort of put you in that place and that mindset. So you can start formulating a strategy for this moment, which is really incredible. 

[00:17:37] Nena Dimovska: That must be very useful. And while we’re on the mindset perspective, there was this recent survey that showed that AI literacy actually impacts what are the attitudes of people with some of them believing that AI should influence their, let’s say performance reviews, but not their promotion opportunities. 

[00:17:58] Nena Dimovska: And this leaves me thinking that it’s a lot about how you communicate about technology and AI in the company. So how would you advise managers to communicate AI’s role clearly and also enhance AI literacy in their teams? 

[00:18:18] Jess Von Bank: I think it’s really critical. I think this is becoming the new language of work and literacy. So we’re going to play a little bit of a, a game here where there’s literacy, there’s proficiency, and then there’s expertise. And not everybody will need to be fully fluent and consider themselves experts in all kinds of different tools and systems. Some will and should, and I would love to make sure that that’s a representative you know, part of the workforce for reasons we’ve already discussed. But I also think this technology, AI, generative AI, agentic AI, where this is going is that it will actually be so embedded in the way we work that not all of us, it’s sort of like I’m not an expert on, you know, most of the systems that I use. 

[00:19:11] Jess Von Bank: They’re just there. I’m not an expert on all of the apps that are on my phone. This is just the way I go through my day and order a car and order my groceries and check the weather and my calendar and whatever. And so I think this technology will become so embedded and so fluid, so integrated into the way we work. Will become naturally accustomed to voice to text or, you know, querying and prompting tools that technically are AI tools. You know, they’ll technically be agent driven and automation and that kind of thing, but it will be so embedded in the flow of work that literate, yes, proficient, yes. But will I need to be a system expert in all of these things? Not all of us, not necessarily. You know, sort of like running spell check or, you know, on a document, it’s just going to become a tool that we understand and want to use because it helps us. It feels natural. It feels fluid. But right now we’re at the cusp of it where it feels new, dangerous, scary, exciting. And so I think it’s important for people to understand what it is. What data it uses and why, how you’re protected and why. Is it trustworthy? Are the outputs valid? Like we’re still in a place where we require a lot of explainability to build trust and to get it right, to be honest to make sure that we, we continue to improve that moving forward. 

[00:20:43] Nena Dimovska: I just love how you managed to beautifully simplify just how we think about AI’s potential. And I think that the emphasis here on transparency and communication is rather crucial, right? Because, like you said, when people understand the role and limitations of AI, it kind of builds trust. So it’s not just about deploying AI, but about creating a culture, where people understand how it adds value to their work for them to feel empowered and informed. So thank you so much for bringing that up. And before we wrap up the conversation on a rather personal note like we mentioned in the introduction, you are raising the, three wonderful daughters and your stories truly resonate with many, especially women. 

[00:21:35] Nena Dimovska: So your commitment to equality is evident also through your role as Board Chair and President at an NGO, Diverse Daisies a nonprofit supporting girls. And I would just love to hear what drives your passion for this work and the message you’d like to send to women everywhere?  

[00:21:54] Jess Von Bank: I alwayss smile when people ask me about this. My passion and my purpose on it carries through everything I do in, you know, in my daily work life. My passion really is the same, and that’s to create a future that’s better than the reality we have today. And let’s be honest. The world doesn’t deserve girls. 

[00:22:16] Jess Von Bank: It does not yet deserve girls. It is not the… it’s not what we promised them. It’s not what they deserve. We still have a pay gap. There’s still bias in most of our day to day experiences. There’s discrimination, there’s safety concerns. We’ve just been talking about AI. There’s a huge concern around the rise in deep fakes, for example. 

[00:22:41] Jess Von Bank: We don’t know what’s real and what’s not real online. Our sense of reality is becoming a bit blurred. Deep fakes are a real concern and they target women and children. They’re not good. It’s not safe. And so there’s all these things. There’s all these threats everywhere. And systems that still require change in order to be good for everyone, to be healthy and safe for everyone. And when I think about my work at Mercer every single day, I’m trying to improve the experience of work for everyone. I feel like I’m always adding that asterisk or, you know, sort of like completing the sentence. Don’t forget everyone. And that requires an intersectional understanding of everyone and the impact of things on everyone. And so I’ll continue to wave that flag in everything I do. The fact that I have three daughters means I have not enough time to fix things before they enter the workforce. They’re old enough now at the ages of 15, 13 and 12, to see for themselves that their experience of the world as girls and young women is not the same. 

[00:23:54] Jess Von Bank: It’s not the same for everyone. And they’re also old enough to not be okay with that, to call BS on a lot of the things they see. You know, see something, say something. They’re getting old enough to see something and say something. And it’s important for them. It’s important to me for them to see that I am part of that positive change. That I’m part, I’m one of the voices that’s out there advocating on our behalf, on their behalf and really trying to paint a picture of a world that does deserve girls, that is and impactful for everyone, including and especially girls and women. My nonprofit Diverse Daisies is for girls ages 10 to 15, the coming of age years where our self belief and our self esteem, how we view ourselves and the world, how we think about our friendships, how we see adults and what they do. And, you know, sort of the world of opportunity that’s out there. Imagine from 10 to 15, all that you’re absorbing and understanding about the world around you and everything you’re trying to figure out about yourself and your future. And so it’s, I love, love, love doing that work. I heard a great interview. And I’m going to forget his name, but it’s a great interview with this grand chess master named Maurice, and I’ll forget his last name. But he coached a group of middle schoolers from Harlem in the game of chess. And this school in Harlem had never competed on any sort of level any, any sort of elite level of performance in the game of chess, but they went on to win a national championshIp. 

[00:25:40] Jess Von Bank: Wow. Amazing. 

[00:25:42] Jess Von Bank: He used a concept he called scaffolding. 

[00:25:44] Jess Von Bank: And I think about that concept all the time. Scaffolding, as we understand it, is a support system around a building like a structure that’s not safe to enter. And the scaffolding is there to fix and protect and whatever, until that structure is safe to enter. And the concept of scaffolding for people is creating psychological safety. Is creating a support structure or a support system to make a space safe to enter. 

[00:26:13] Jess Von Bank: He used that when he was coaching this group of Harlem kids to even consider playing the game of chess, let alone, let alone go on to be high performing and elite and compete at a high level. I think about that concept a lot when I think about Diverse Daisies. How do I make the world of opportunity feel psychologically safe to enter? And not just enter, but thrive and own it and make it yours and master it. I think it’s such a cool, cool concept. And I smile because I I’m preparing our annual impact report right now and sort of thinking about all of the girls we reached this year and all of the experiences we were able to create and provide. And I know every single day it’s making a difference. 

[00:27:03] Nena Dimovska: Wow. I’ll just let that sink for a second there. First off, kudos on your impact with Diverse Daisies and that scaffolding metaphor is so strong. I mean, your grit and your passion, like it’s, it just reminds me on the ripple effect that sometimes comes with empowering others. And that this work that you’re doing just shows that leadership extends way beyond the workplace. 

[00:27:30] Nena Dimovska: It’s just about uplifting others and enabling them, as you said, to see the opportunities they might not even know they’re there. Like the example with the with the chess players, and I can tell that your passion really shines through. You know, it’s just clear how deeply you value making an impact supporting women and girls, like we have to emphasize, it’s not just a social responsibility. 

[00:27:57] Nena Dimovska: It’s also a business imperative for creating a more equitable and thriving future for everyone like this, like, like you said. So thank you, Jess. Thank you so much for sharing your valuable insights and inspiring us all to take actionable steps toward a more inclusive and purpose driven workplace. Thank you  

[00:28:20] Jess Von Bank: so much for having me. This was so much fun. 

[00:28:23] Nena Dimovska: Yeah, likewise. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in, subscribe for more insights and we’ll see you in the next episode.